Oh fuck you, FIFA

[the_future_modernes]

Iran fights Fifa ban on hijab

Because punishing kids for what their fucking gov'ts do is absolutely what the Olympic Spirit should be about. Apparently the argument started in Canada 11 year old girl told to take off hijab while on the field or be banned for safety reasons And instead of asking that adjustments be made to satisfy their safety requirements, they just banned religious symbols entirely. Which is in my view discriminatory and high-handed.

Comments

[martyna]

I prefer the referee banning the girl than having a lawsuit filled against him, because someone's dead or injured since he didn't follow the rules. They stick to their manual no matter their own position, that's all.
The decision needs to be taken further up and one wonders why there has been no action taken to make the sport both: safer and more widely available for everyone.
My understanding is that also without the decorum you can be perfectly religious - as far as I know the hijab isn't an absolutely and under all circumstances necessary item (just like the rosary wouldn't be though I agree it might be generally less common), especially for young girls. But then again I might be mistaken...

ETA

[martyna]

Wikipedia says:
"Although some countries have enforced the hijab, others have not because of the varying beliefs that it is not mandatory to wear hijab."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

Thus I'm not entirely right.
Then again, I'd see the hijab rather as a women rights question than anything else.

(The "Historical and cultural explanations" is quite one-sided but interesting none-the-less.)

Re: ETA

[the_future_modernes]

I think this is more about Western discomfort with Islam than anything about safety. The hijabs can be and have been modified when the request has been made. And even if the women are being forced to wear it, like in Iran, do they really think that banning all Iranian women from playing will help their case? Or leave a good taste in the mouth with regards to Westerners? Women have the right to wear what they choose. ANd they should not be forced to wear it, but neither should they be forced to take it off. Too many "women's rights" campaigners conveniently ignore the second part.

Re: ETA

[martyna]

Well, I think the rules should be changed to allow them to wear one. But as the rules are for now and without adaptation, this might pose a security issue. (When I see pro-sportmen and woman with earrings, pendants, necklaces... it astonishes me every time considering the risks in some sports.) I don't say banning it from the field is the right choice, but for the referee the one and only choice if he wants to stay within the rules. If the team plays within the FIFA they should know the rules and work against them before they are met in the this situation - they couldn't claim either that x wasn't a foul or a valid goal just because they haven't seen it in the rules, could they?
I cannot claim I didn't know it was prohibited to park my car somewhere, just because my driving teacher didn't tell me about it. I'm supposed to know it anyway and have to face the consequences as if I knew it.
So the campaign to change the rules should have been EARLIER rather than later, this is my sole point.
(And yes, if they want to wear the hijab, they are welcome to do so, just as others choose their cappies, low-cut jeans or other items.)

Re: ETA

[the_future_modernes]

*sigh*1. No. Hijab isn't fashion. it is a part of some people's expression of relgion. Deeply personal part of themselves. 2. If its about safety ...hijabs can be and have been adjusted Its not static. Safety is being used as an excuse.

General reply

[martyna]

This will be my last post on this entry, as I feel that people either "misunderstand" on purpose or I seem unable to express clearly my point of view. Which might differ from yours anyway.
So: If you join a tournament (or any other event) you abide by its rules. Period. If the rules are either unclear about or not permitting something and this is an issue to you, you need to address the corresponding authorities first.

People here tend to judge me on where I livenow, so I do not think this discussing is leading anywhere and I do not really fancy being targeted for using one word or another which you might think odd or bad for putting across a bigger image and putting it in the spotlight (which I feel is pretty much nitpicking), instead of discussing the basic problem: the rules themselves.

Feel free to continue the discussion, but I won't join in any longer.
(If you think I'm stubborn or narrow-minded, so be it.)

[willow]

You just compared the hijab to a rosary.

....

And then you brought in wikipedia on a point of how someone expresses their faith.

[martyna]

So. I suppose you want to tell me it is wrong to make a parallel between to items showing religious faith?

I don't say it's how they express it, my question is if they "need" to express it this way due to religion. (And I brought in wikipedia only later, for verification of my information that I did gather elsewhere and to admit I haven't been right. What's so bad about admitting my knowledge/point of view might not be absolutely correct?)

I'd like your criticism be a little bit clearer, since my headache seems to prevent me from getting entirely your points.

[willow]

my question is if they "need" to express it this way due to religion

|| "Do you NEED to be so 'Asian' about everything?"

"Do you HAVE to be so 'BLACK' about everything?" ||


How are you going to judge what an individual needs as an expression of their religion, faith and way of life when you aren't a part of those things yourself and admit to astounding ignorance on them?

Hajib is NOT like a rosary or a crucifix or a star of David or prayer beads.

Do you walk around thinking Orthodox Jews don't really NEED to express their faith in their dress, male and female, because Reform Jews don't do similarly?

But I'm only even responding since that quote so infuriated me. Seeing that you're in Paris gives me a whole lot of information on what it is you're likely to see as being necessary as an expression of self and culture.

[martyna]

I do not say what they need, I say what is asked for directly by the rules of their religion. Point. I do not say what they individually need or not, as no one can judge it, but eventually themselves.

I do not say it is. Nothing and no person is like any other. That doesn't say I cannot compare them in one way or another.
Also, as far as I know I took this aspect back since it depends on the subschool (or whatever you call it) of the closer religious group they belong to. Don't get me wrong here, but your Jews argument isn't working against me.

Well, what clue gives me living in Paris to you? (Now, that DOES make me curious.)

[willow]

If you're living in Paris and are not aware of French attitudes towards those practicing Islam and those of Middle Eastern and Jewish ancestry - bubble much?

And by the rules of their religion - religion, culture and faith involve more than dictates of rules by official books and official authorized individuals.

Again, between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews - which one of them is NOT living by the rules of their religion?

But y'know, you're totally baiting. And being infuriated at the clueless in this case is the waste of a spoon.

[la_vie_noire]

Again, between Orthodox Jews and Reform Jews - which one of them is NOT living by the rules of their religion?

Yeah, the problem with a lot of western people is that they are so immersed in their cultures that kinda forget that these religions (mostly Christianity) have shaped most of their culture.

Because, why do people wear clothes while playing football anyway? It could serve like some sort of protection, but really, not so much, and I doubt that's their first purpose. Or better, these clothes are modified to protect the players, but because they have to be used by cultural rules in the first place.

[amadi]

So let me understand your argument. What I'm reading is: because some people do not express their devotion to the Islamic faith with hijab, it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate against those who do. Is that an accurate read of your position here?

[martyna]

It is not. Please read my other remarks.

[amadi]

Your argument is still boiling down that way, unless you have something else meaningful to add. They didn't try to modify FIFA rules ahead of time and so therefore this discrimination is acceptable for now? And there could be a safety issue? Rules lawyering and concern trolling do not an argument make.

[willow]

martyna:And yes, if they want to wear the hijab, they are welcome to do so, just as others choose their cappies, low-cut jeans or other items.

Because Hijab is both JUST like a rosary and also JUST fashion.

Now I wonder if the Amish (and Mennonites) only get a pass on their clothing choices because they're white and Christian.

[amadi]

You know, I'm sick of all this anti-hijabi nonsense. If your goal is freedom, you don't police what women wear, period. If you start doing so, you should be honest that you don't give a shit about freedom unless it's freedom for people who don't bother you for other reasons. (i.e. you hate their religion.)

(That's the generic you, not you, Willow.)