On war and peace in the Bible and the Quran

[the_future_modernes]

1. Riz Khan - War and peace in Quran and Bible



2. Dark passages: Does the harsh language in the Koran explain Islamic violence? Don't answer till you've taken a look inside the Bible

Unconsciously, perhaps, many Christians consider Islam to be a kind of dark shadow of their own faith, with the ugly words of the Koran standing in absolute contrast to the scriptures they themselves cherish. In the minds of ordinary Christians - and Jews - the Koran teaches savagery and warfare, while the Bible offers a message of love, forgiveness, and charity. For the prophet Micah, God's commands to his people are summarized in the words "act justly, and love mercy, and walk humbly with your God" (Micah 6:8). Christians recall the words of the dying Jesus: "Father, forgive them: they know not what they do."

But in terms of ordering violence and bloodshed, any simplistic claim about the superiority of the Bible to the Koran would be wildly wrong. In fact, the Bible overflows with "texts of terror," to borrow a phrase coined by the American theologian Phyllis Trible. The Bible contains far more verses praising or urging bloodshed than does the Koran, and biblical violence is often far more extreme, and marked by more indiscriminate savagery. The Koran often urges believers to fight, yet it also commands that enemies be shown mercy when they surrender. Some frightful portions of the Bible, by contrast, go much further in ordering the total extermination of enemies, of whole families and races - of men, women, and children, and even their livestock, with no quarter granted. One cherished psalm (137) begins with the lovely line, "By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept"; it ends by blessing anyone who would seize Babylon's infants and smash their skulls against the rocks.

To say that terrorists can find religious texts to justify their acts does not mean that their violence actually grows from those scriptural roots. Indeed, such an assumption itself is based on the crude fundamentalist formulation that everything in a given religion must somehow be authorized in scripture. The difference between the Bible and the Koran is not that one book teaches love while the other proclaims warfare and terrorism, rather it is a matter of how the works are read. Yes, the Koran has been ransacked to supply texts authorizing murder, but so has the BibleMORE

Personally, one of the reasons I fled the Christian religion was reading more about the history of colonization, and then rereading the violent parts of the Bible. I couldn't reconcile with a god that would order people to take other people's land, and compounding all of that the Bible was used as justification for European colonization across the planet. Priests and preachers and other religious leaders and followers were all up in the colonization project and many of them still pulling that shit. For me, I cannot countenance a ruling power who advocated this kind of shenanigans, or who did not correct their followers if they were misquoting him. At the same time, the hypocrisy of Christians pretending as if Islam is the root of all evil makes me choke. So.

Comments

[mswyrr]

Excellent post!

[nagasvoice]

Yes, thank you. Just another pointer to the generalized ignorance of the Xtian right-wingnut hate-mongers. The more I talk about them, the more I end up stringing together hyphens, it gets ridiculous.
Similarly, other newer hegemonic religious groups are pretty darn violent too.
If you've read the first bits of the Book of Mormon, and how that ends, you'd be surprised to learn that the 10 Christian Commandments still apply, but the leader victim sucker prophet is told to kill his drunk, helpless landlord where he lays in the gutter, take his keys, rob him after his death, and run away to a better place with the goods and money.
Whut?
I think that's called Murder One in most jurisdictions.
SORRY, those of you who like the rest of it-- IMHO, if you can buy that, you can buy 16 contradictory things (before breakfast) out of Door #1.

[thejeopardymaze]

I left Christianity because I just found it to be boring-nothing in the mythology was anything like Greek mythology. I guess I was lucky that I was raised to be Catholic-light, and that the worst I went through was Sunday school. My behavior was misinterpreted, it was just lack of interest, nothing deep about questioning whatever material I was taught, I just failed to see the point. I have a feeling if I was raised with the more magical leanings of Catholicism, like the Saints, I would have stayed, because I might of felt I would of had something pertaining to my own self-interest.

[vangirl]

I know there's a theory out there that Yahweh was originally one of many gods, specifically a war god, whose followers eventually took over. I'm having trouble finding the source (and it probably wasn't highly reputable) but given what's in the Bible? It's a theory I could easily believe in.

The Bible has some terrifying things in it if you actually read the thing.

[the_future_modernes]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!

[the_future_modernes]

If you've read the first bits of the Book of Mormon, and how that ends, you'd be surprised to learn that the 10 Christian Commandments still apply, but the leader victim sucker prophet is told to kill his drunk, helpless landlord where he lays in the gutter, take his keys, rob him after his death, and run away to a better place with the goods and money.


WHUT indeed. WHUT?!?!!?

[the_future_modernes]

Oh greek mythology! The gods AND goddesses pissed me off there too, it was like for real ya'll? You are just like humans with powers! Which made you even more spoiled and selfish! Great reading though, someone needs to make a good tv series out of that! I do like the ritual in the Catholic church. It soothes me to see actions and costumes and stuff being carried out with history behind them. If only the teachings and so much of their actions weren't utter bullshit.

[the_future_modernes]

I know this theory. I will link you in a minute.

[thejeopardymaze]

I never interpreted them in that way, and started liking them a bit more after reading the actual source material (quality of translations always matters). Also, the myths of the Greeks weren't the same as the religion, rituals, and overall culture. Which I need to get back to reading more about.


I do like the ritual in the Catholic church.

I kind of miss it, only because it's more familiar to me. I'm under the impression of ancient Mediterranean influence though.

I think I know of some books

[thejeopardymaze]

I'll cut and paste some things from my Amazon wishlist when I have the time. It's all scholarly, with no newage Goddess matriarchy crap.

[thejeopardymaze]

Which made you even more spoiled and selfish!

As messed as some of the myths were, ancient cultures weren't a free for all. It's much more complicated than that, and unfortunately it's been awhile since I've read up on ancient Greek history and religion, but it certainly wasn't about constant orgies and getting whatever you want.

Rereads comment

[thejeopardymaze]

I believe He originated from El, not a variety of Gods.

Part of my interest in this has to do with the fact that the Phoenicians worshiped the same Gods, more or less, and what might possibly could constructed from it. I'm also interested in the ancient religion/s of Arabia, but I'll have to learn Arabic (Classical and Modern Standard) long before I can do any interesting research, but I digress.

[nagasvoice]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I'm also a bit dismayed by the editors on the Old Testament too, come right down to it. I mean, hello, Eve is the first woman, except what's with this bit about the Daughters of Men? etc etc. And the bits that drag!
I know, people like to read all kinds of drama into them, but we know about fanfiction around here, just plain old making things up on the boring bits.